top red mages have no honor :)

[Combe]

they multi a poor green mage  

2005-05-04 11:33:57 2 Keogh(#25) 28,980,741 10,757 70
2005-05-04 07:23:02 3 Rojo Grande(#10) 25,570,969 9,786    19
2005-05-04 07:17:07 4 devastad0r(#9) 23,566,053 5,782 30
2005-05-03 21:32:33 3 Rojo Grande(#10) 25,570,969 9,786 19
2005-05-03 18:53:41 2 Keogh(#25) 28,980,741 10,757 70
   

but only attack no siege and some times to gain 4 acres by killing 6000 mandrakre
or loss 2 heros :lol:


Te ataco el mago yyyy(xxx) !!!

El invasor perdió 3 red dragon
El invasor perdió 7174 wraith

El heroe Crypt Keeper ha muerto en batalla
El invasor perdió 387 lich
El invasor perdió 1932 ghoul
El invasor perdió 22 vampire

El heroe Summoner ha muerto en batalla
El defensor perdio 24 earth elemental
El defensor perdio 91 treant
El defensor perdio 151 mandrake

Tu perdiste 266 unidades y el invasor 9518
Bloqueaste exitosamente el ataque


Combe bored about changes and top red mages !!!

[eru]

Hi Combe! Nice to see u powering up. Just rise 29k of power and i promise i'll hit u in sieged, won't loose a hero and win all the lands i'll be able to xD (it's a joke, it'll be difficult for a green to arrive to 29k power xDDDD)

And yes, i don't like those multiattacks and u'll see i have never done this kind of things but look how many attacks ca those reds do and u'll understand why they play this way. It starts to be boring here in the top (at least for me )

PS: Please, don't say red mages in general, i don't think i'm in this group

[Combe]

I understand that they have not a large amout of mages to hit (specialy with a large first stack of undisbandable  red-dragon) but with chimera hydra efreeti the number of target is much more larger i think.

But with changes i start being land farm in the top10 with no army (much more geld) for top reds after buying lvl 14 heros i go up to thoose same red mages they must be a beat more greatfull for me.  no ?  

the interest in changes is the lvl of heros at the blackmarket : kepping heros to lvl 18 is much more complicated than buying lvl 17 ones (good for the game)

by the way top10 with only green mages is not better !!!
changes must be done but maybe now they are maybe to helpfull to reds !!

Combe, a beat bored
but happy when i stop red attack and kill heros    

[RedChaos]

Hi combe

I received multiattaks too, but i think that this is a normal action when they don't have enemys in their range of power

Don't worry, when we up we'll counter them

XDDDDDDDDD

[eru]

What changes are u talking about?¿ Because i think none of the changes that have been made affect specially red mages.

You can't buy lvl 17 heros? u have to buy them at lvl 14-15 and make them win experience? As all the other players ;) And it's much more difficult to geld now cause gold gives power, but that's how it had to be.

I think ur problem is that greens and the white mage don't allow blacks to get in the top and start hitting red mages. This may be cause they are ur only food by now so u have to hit them. If they managed to get above the greens and get a bit fat u'd see how reds would start to tremble ;)

And yes, with the stack u're saying (quim/hydra/efi/...) it would be easier for them to power down to have more targets but they would be, for sure, good farms for the reds that are above and would win much more battles against greens (for example) ;)

[Merc]

yea, lvl 17 heroes have become xtremely rare now...I found only 1 since i started this set and i quickly bought him beofre anyone noticed...A good 500 or so was only needed  ...But like combe said, it will be xtremely painful should we lose any of em now.  

The gelding factor inmy belief does help red largely.  Especially since green and white accumalate gold much faster.  THus they raise too high for the lil amount of troops that they have and reds, who are able to readily maintain rds, can easily conquer them with the fake stack plan, and even easier with your starting stack eru.  So reds, have gained a large advantage as they can sweep from lower ranks and still win land from higher greens.  

Also, in this server there isnt many targets at all in general...Which is why im not surprised taht Im attacked by the same mages every other day.  Heck, we areso close to another we can probably start calling each other by our first names.  And when u reach top 10..which isnt very hard to do in this server, you will see xactly what i mean...as we can see in combe case.  

[Leper]

Heroes are crutches.  Heroes allow mages who don't necessarily have any skill to use simple stacks that would never work without heroes.  We have at least two of these people climbing right now.

Now combe, you may be very good at this game--- I really don't know---but do you really think your stack would have gotten you to 6k acres without all the heroes you have?  The only reason you're blocking these attacks is because you have five hundred heroes that let your treants hit at 12000 instead of 7500---a mage without heroes would be getting sieged daily, and beaten.  Luckily for you, no one is sieging you successfully and your land never really goes down.  For that reason, you'll probably always be the top green on the server.

Multi-attacking? Darn right.  Expect it to continue.  The task is YOURS to come up with a better defense than complaining on the message boards.

Merc said the gelding rule favors reds---maybe, maybe not.  It was a terrible rule change, and it affected all serious mages equally, IF the mage is smart about it.  The days  of stockpiling 2 billion gold are over, you've got to get rid of it to use your turns.  Even reds should do this.

[sam1164]

Quien esle mago que termina con la puja 123? eres tu eru? ¬¬¬ dajeme los frascos! que estoy reciviendo palos por no tener frascos ni cenizas...ni telas. que si no reventaba a tos los verdes ¬¬

[eru]

It's good to have heros but only if u know what to do with them ;) Why do u want a veteran lvl 13 for example xD

I think it's much more important to know what item and spell u have to use against other stacks with what u're stacking both in defense and in attack.

By the other side we are few mages playing this server and really active only in top50 so it's quite normal to be hit or hit the same mages every day. The problem is find a good stack or make a good one to attack or defend what u have around.  And i think as Leper, the problem is for every player to stop the attacks (even if they are multi-attacks) from some players by defending allright and giving a good counter ;) this way maybe u'll manage to make them think twice to attack u.

------------------------------

Sam, pq tengo q ser yo el de la terminacion 123? pq aparece mucho en el mercado? joer como si tuviera tanto oro y fuera el unico q esta arriba sin nada que hacer... que hay 3 rojos mas leñe xD

Venga feo, a ver si te subes ya que parece que no acabas de pillarle el truquillo al color :* Ademas tienes el camino de puta madre para plantarte en el top. Una vez arriba solo tendras que ganarte el respeto y/o miedo de los rojos de arriba para vivir tranquilo ;)

Suerte y diviertete

[RedChaos]

A mi me pegaron el otro dia pq no movi el mago y aprovecharon q avia recibido unos 5 atakes antes


jo malos

[Leper]

The complete strategy guide for playing with massed heroes:

1. Geld.
2. Buy high-level heroes.
3. Use one or two units in large numbers, preferably one with a high primary attack.
4. Buy ashes of invisibility

Congratulations, you now know what you need to know to create a top ten hero mage.

It sure beats actually learning how to play the game, doesn't it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------'

The problem for these greens as far as countering goes is that they don't have access to any units that can threaten a red mage with full barriers, oil flasks, and 5k more acres than they have.  Very, very tough to be a green mage this reset.

[RedChaos]

i'm green and i very enjoy with this reset, tehy are red, they are top, they are more strong but nothig win one attack to me


XDDDDDDDDDDDD



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Na q me lo paso siendo verde como un niño, hoy pare 6 atakes seguidos y me rei mucho



Una cosa, si ese negrito para de multiatakar a verdes y les da a rojos, quizas se igualen las cosas


Gurdjef, para de pegar, no vas a entrar y no vas a entrar y ya esta


XDDDDDDDDDDDD

[eru]

Leper, it's not as easy as u tell... give me one of those greens, with high-level heros and i'll see what i do with their trees xD There's also a problem, heros that appear in the market are low level. It's quite hard to buy one above lvl 16. U have to buy them and make them win experience.

The other problem of ur strategy is that u would onl y have 1 or 2 stacks. I can assure that it's not a good stacking if u're in the top for some colours. for example with green, u have to enlarge ur stack. What i mean is not having a 10 stack army with 7 stupid stacks but first a 3 stack mage with good % between the stacks. Then 4 stacks and equilibarte them...

Greens only have to think what they can do to stop red attacks. It's possible, if not we wouldn't be here playing!

Good luck and enjoy (what i'm not doing here, in the top xD)

[Leper]

but it is that easy.  Granted, a skilled player might combine good tactics with good heroes, making a very difficult target, and a skilled player with heroes willa always defeat a novice with heroes, but the bottom line is that even a novice player can succeed armed with a full array of heroes.

The fact of the matter is that, with heroes, you can use pretty much anything and do well.
http://www.geocities.com/dhagglund98/dragons.html

You see, normally a pegasus/chimera/ghoul stacking wouldn't succeed, but with heroes....

[eru]

Have u seen how many pegs he had!?¿ xD And how many quimeras?¿ Even without heros he would have inflicted a lot of damage.

Of course heros help but it's also easy to loose them (if not read my description xD). As i said above u have to know what u need and what is better for ur stack. There's also something mroe, it's much more difficult to geld now with the changes applied cause any gelder will be powered up due to his gold and easily hit or pillajeg by the other mages. That there'll be mages with full ehros? of course, as all the resets. But those players will geld for a month and won't play a lot. It's their decision!

Only skilled players demonstrate that they can defeat

novice player ... armed with a full array of heroes

it's better to know how to stack and how to attack someone than having lots of heros

[RedChaos]

Eru por dios hablame algo en español q las neuronas no me dan mas


XDDDDDDD

Yo creo q el server es mas divertido para verde q para rojo

[Leper]

I dunno.  You will NEVER convince me that heroes are good for the game.  

[Merc]

hmm...

It is true...heroes can always turn the tide in battle, but only if used correctly.  The higher the hero, the greater the advantage.  but it needs to be suited well, and secure.  Otherwise, they will end up in somebodys descrip or graveyard.  Yes, heroes are crutches; therefore the mages who acquire them become very dependent, as so does their stack.  But they are neccessary should you wish to accomplish an otherwise impossible task.  

A prime example now will be the lich VS RD.  Liches in vast numbers can easily kill about 15 rds or more, with no heroes..but from my experiance, that is an estimation of about 3k liches, possibly more.  However, with heroes that number is drastically reduced to by a factor of 66%.  SO we only need about 1k to do the same work.  Last set, with 4 heroes, lvl 18-22, my liches were hitting at a constant of 9k, with g strength over 15k.  With g strength enabled, and only 1300 liches i was able to easily clean 20 rds, and suffer minmum casulties.  With stun only, it would kill about 15 rds.  Even occasionally my effs will clear 10 rds.  Both units are capable of holding on their own.  But with the heroes, they surpass their rivals and over come their prior weaknesses.  Without the heroes, my units will never have accomplished that.  Nor will i have ever passed that 3k land mark unless i used them RDs and properly.  

The only color that can easily rise without the use of heroes is red.  Possibly green if they get ahead of everyone else with those FDs and massive fodder/lore combo.   Another color that may not need heroes is white, due to their defensive capabilities and tehir great advantage over black.  BUt they may lack in offense agaisnt many other colors, unless they variate their stack accordingly.  

It does take greater skill to raise and maintain course without heroes, that it does.  But, remember this...(using treants) 1000 treant with 7.5k ap vs 1000 treant with 12k ap.... the 12k will most likely win.  

[eru]

It's not a must to rise the top to play with heros, of course but it's good to use them. But only if u know what they do, what advantadge they can give u and at what levels. Of course it's not the same to attack a mage with treants hitting near12k but u'll see what happens with those trees if u have a lvl 18 shaman (when wall of thorn will be on, i know it isn't). U just must know what heros u're looking for and why. Heros allow u to soften ur weaknesses but as Mrc told they make ur stack really dependant of them. It's not easy to design a good stack if u have lots of heros (and more over if they are high lvl ones)... It's really easy to have lots of heros, even they can be high lvl heros... I'm lying, it's easy to have a lot of heros but it's more easy to have a crappy stack and lose 1 or 2 heros per day. Of course if it was a valk lvl 11 there's no matter, the problem arrives when it was a lvl 18 warlord ;)

I repeat, it's much more important to design a good stack and a good assignement for every moment in the game (ur position in the rank, what colours are around u, counters u're expecting to be taken...) than having heros.

And u're saying red's don't need heros, of course we don't! We most use rd's, look at their resistance to colours... a marvelous 90%, only 1 of 10 times the abilities of the hero will affect rd's xDDDD By the other hand some reds also use stacks based on more units than rd's. That's very interesting cause they can use some heros. but this stacks have a big problem. It makes reds much more weak to their depredators. If u have more stacks others than rd's they have to be strong enough to support the attacks. Then u'll have to lower the number of rd's u'll have. Then u'll be weaker to blakcs and blues and even whites. It's just ur decision, playing with any stack, heros or assignement, just think before acting and choose well.

good luck to all!

[Leper]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Eru, except for one point: it's really easy to keep heroes alive if you don't use a real stacking----just go one or two deep. And that's precisely my problem with them.

[Merc]

yea, but that only works under 20 million power.  Once u begin climbing past that, you have to start adding stacks, otherwise, the stronger mages above you will tear your solid stack apart.  I'll put up a simple example, one in whihc we are all familiar with.

treants/mandrakes

one of the best solid green stacks with heroes.  Les max them out in AP.

vs

treants/drakes/nixes/AA/EE/creeping vines/Elven Magician/nymphs/dryads

8 stacks vs 2, in a power lvl of above 30 million.  The 2nd stack has maybe 1 hero...a shaman, to support the treefolk.  Now what will happen here...how will the 2nd mage win?  Most likely fatigue.  the nixes/AA/EE/EM/Nymphs/Dryads all have a higher int, thus hit the treants first.  As a result, by the time their treants even attack, it will either do minimal damage, or no damage at all.  Now, granted success in the 2nd mage winning the counter is not gauranteed, but it does lower casulties.  And if tat double stack mage is running B chant, then he will fatigue much quicker, hence dealing no damage at all.  It will be up to his 2nd stack to win the battle.  Which in this case scenario i doubt victory will occur for him.  

But like you said a double and possibly a triple stack can allow a mage to reach this far, but...once he or she starts facing off against multi-stackers, at that same power lvl or greater, then they will have to adapt.  Otherwise, they will just collapse.  I know from experiance.  unfortunately I never adapted for fear of losing a hero at that time.  


PS...this is in not in account of items or spells.  

[eru]

Yes, there's something important as the fatigue but also that in high positions it's important to enlarge ur stacking. If u do not so it can be very dangerous. I'll show u another example:

treant/drake vs rd/.../.../.../quimera

In top positions how many quimeras can a red have? 5000? for example ;) just think what can 5000 quimeras do if any stack attacks them and can hit calmly to treants... a big big disaster (for the green of course xD)

Ok, u won't a loose a hero, but u'll loose a lot of lands.

Otherwise be carefull, the less u stack power to the first stacks the more dangerous it is xD

U just have to balance ur stack and again look what u have to do against what u have around u.

[Leper]

ironically enough, eru, I used something similar to that against a heroed green.  Lost 2.5k chimera to the treants' counterattack.

Fatigue is the best way to defend against heroed players, but it doesn't work if they have ashes, and it doesn't help you inflict more damage.  In the example that Merc gave, neither side would take land from the other, most likely.

[RedChaos]

No es poir mal pero o me traducis o me niego a seguir

XDDDDDD



Green are enjoy

Red is de powerfull in this server

Black are interesting, with this reds up  

Blue are very dificult

White?  is a very powerfull color with red's and black's


Heroes isn't neccesary, i don't have heroes

[Leper]

White is an unfortunate color because its primary target, blacks, are too dangerous to hit for a white mage with high land.  Whites can't crack strong reds, leaving only blue as a target.  It's tough to be white.

Blue is an interesting color, but I get the impression that no one here knows how to play it.  I think Lord_Frank screwed blue when he removed AA's breath resistance (allowing reds to break them), but blue's strength lies in its spell level and ability to get a wide variety of units.  The blue having success could have succeeded just as easily as a black.

Green is a very powerful color, but at a major disadvantage on this server.

Black can be tough, but it takes a very good player to run it well, and...


...it seems that the most skilled mages chose red this reset.  That, along with the increased item generation rate, created the red dominated server that we all enjoy.

And redchaos, if you had heroes, maybe you'd have 7500 acres instead of 5000.

[lord_frank]

yo removi eso de los AA ? que raro ni recuerdo haberlo hecho  jojojo

[RedChaos]

And redchaos, if you had heroes, maybe you'd have 7500 acres instead of 5000.

My 5k of lands are because is the first reset that i'm green and i had to resolve some problems to play it, because i'm black and the change of turns and play is very big


But i like play only with one or two heroes because if i are good player now, with heroes i'm a very good player


Really now i have 5, but because is very easy buy heroes in this server

[RedChaos]

Other thing


What is big red??


You don't win me

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Leper]

you're, right, I haven't broken you.  0 for 8 I think? Three factors come into play:

1. You are very solid defensively
2. I've never gotten anything past barriers
3. I have to disband more than one third of my army and all of my fodder protection to hit you.  <---this is a big one ;)


And frankly, if you don't get more land, I doubt I'll ever be able to beat you.  I'll just have to start multi-attacking Gelatinous and Combe instead =)


Lord Frank: I do not know if you removed AA's breath resistance, but I know that AA's (in Mari days) had 75% resistance to all but poison/paralyze.  I would think that you'd remember that, since you always used to play blue.  ;)


P.S.   Is it true that if you put into an English-Spanish translator, you get xDDDDDDD?

[RedChaos]

Yupiiiiiiiii


heheh


At last i meet you


good luck

[lord_frank]

año 2000 :

Spell Resistance  
ERADICATION : 45 %
NETHER : 70 %
PHANTASM : 30 %

Attack Resistance  
MISSILE : 75 %
FIRE : 75 %
MAGIC : 75 %
MELEE : 75 %
RANGED : 75 %
LIGHTNING : 75 %
COLD : 75 %
PSYCHIC : 75 %
HOLY : 50 %

año 2003:

ERADICATION : 45 %
NETHER : 70 %
PHANTASM : 30 %  

Attack Resistance

MISSILE : 75 %
FIRE : 75 %
MAGIC : 75 %
MELEE : 75 %
RANGED : 75 %
LIGHTNING : 75 %
COLD : 75 %
PSYCHIC : 75 %
HOLY : 50 %  


la verdad no veo de donde  sacaste eso ;)

[Keogh]

Buenas a todos. .
Creo que el reporte del primer post se refiere a mi. .
Combe, en este reset es facilisimo conseguir heroes, y dado que ya habeis  comentado que para bajar hay que desbandar casi todo el ejercito pues el fodder pierde heroes, es el eterno problema del rojo.
Pero tranki que si subis, como decia Eru, podreis ver como atacamos sin perder heroes^_^.

Suerte

[/Forgiver\]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Eru, except for one point: it's really easy to keep heroes alive if you don't use a real stacking----just go one or two deep. And that's precisely my problem with them.

It can be easy to lose them.
Especially if you are black or white.
You have Black Sabbath which gives you useless Zombies and Skeletons that get heros killed.  Love & Peace gives you Preachers which can be hero killers.  Nature's Favor even, if the mage doesn't stack those units.  And even White Knights and Shepherdess get heros killed often.

It is all a matter of timing.  Getting hit or countered when taking a turn could result in one or many hero deaths.




Also another thing...mages with massive heros.  Godly?  I think not really.  They trade their resources for units for heros.  Mages with mass heros will never have as many units as a mage with no heros, same with the geld issue.  Heros require you to have much more land to stack powerful.  From all my experiences I need at least 3K land with mass heros to stack good.  Sure that stupid shit like Pegasus may work, but it's all ghey.  Also I don't think every mage needs every hero.  It all depends on your play style for that mage and what you plan on doing that reset.


I also agree with MERC you need to expand when you have more land.  By then you are able to created stacks that are good and that wont get your heros killed.


To actually play and climb with heros is an art.  They are a crutch and a hinderance.


Also the fact that heros are harder to come by now, they aren't as big of a help as they have been in previous resets.

(I have enjoyed reading this topic out of fun )
Hope I didn't forget anything as I am a bit intoxicated

[Leper]

Heroes make it impossible to stack well on low lands, that is true---but the important thing is that, with massed heroes, you don't need to stack well.  This is the point that I'm constantly trying to make and that people keep dodging.  Simple is much safer with massed heroes.  Expanding your stack is MORE likely to get your heroes killed.  MORE, not less.

And if you don't think you can still have godly mages on this server, I suggest you attack David, you know, just to prove me wrong ;)

And Spaniards---how 'bout Nadal?  He's something, no?

[eru]

With massed heros u still need to have a good stack, without it u won't climb in the rank. Heros aren't SO important as u're trying to make them. They help but they DON'T DECIDE WHO WINS. All stacks have disadvantages that u have to use in ur favour. Don't pretend to make a mage invulnerable because of his heros.

An i will say more, heros aren't working as well as in Mari ;) Some of their abilities have been powered up (justlook Turn Undead) but valor isn't as powerfull as in Mari's servers. So stop saying heros help u win. Some of u have written about green and his heros, treants/draks really hard to defeat... but i swear it's possible to beat them (just ask Combe while he was in my rank xD). And heros help, but look at my description, how many helpfull heros i've killed. Just think about ur stack, if it works, then with heros it'll work better. If u have a crapy stack it won't work, NEVER, with or without you... hmmm sorry, with or without heros XD

By the other side, if that's ur problem... just buy heros and  try to have lots of them too, this way, only the best stacker will win

[/Forgiver\]

Heroes make it impossible to stack well on low lands, that is true---but the important thing is that, with massed heroes, you don't need to stack well.  This is the point that I'm constantly trying to make and that people keep dodging.  Simple is much safer with massed heroes.  Expanding your stack is MORE likely to get your heroes killed.  MORE, not less.

And if you don't think you can still have godly mages on this server, I suggest you attack David, you know, just to prove me wrong ;)

And Spaniards---how 'bout Nadal?  He's something, no?

I agree to some extent.
Massed stacks can most likely win you on counters and all, but you will not block that well, even with mass heros.  I think anyone who goes this tactic is pretty lame and ignorant.  Oh wow mass Pegasus or Sprite...jesus...that makes me sick...they abuse heros.


I also agree with eru...
Turn Undead is uber powerful here.  Valor on the other hand is so-so.  Heros compliment your stacking.  If you have a poor stack, heros will not help as much as you think.  

I use Treant/Mandrake with lot of heros.  That doesn't make me a god or invincible.  You win some and you lose some.  I never block every attack and I never win every attack.  Everything has its weakness.

Take a moment to think about it.

[Leper]

Eru, how about horned demon/lich?  How do you think this would work without heroes?  I do know that WITH heroes, it killed half my army ;)

[/Forgiver\]

Eru, how about horned demon/lich?  How do you think this would work without heroes?  I do know that WITH heroes, it killed half my army ;)

O_O

[eru]

horned/lich? a good stacking against reds it is, young padawan xD

Leper, against red it's a good stack, when using it u assume u'll loose lots of horneds but liches will eat red dragons  easily and not beeing hit by them ;) So i expect to kill more rd than horneds are killed.

Of course it's a better stack if u are using heros. but, do u have heros? then i'd ask u the same u're asking: would ur stack be so powerfull or work without heros?

I repeat, heros don't make u win nor make a bad stack become a good one. They only help and only some of them are really usefull for every mage or every stack.

Greetings!

PS: if this stack killed half or ur army it may be u haven't a lot of units or army ;););)

[Leper]

hehe, HD/lich is indeed a good anti-red stack.  Without heroes, however, I GUARANTEE it wouldn't work against inferno/oil.  If I remember the battle correctly, he attacked me and his 3-4k liches killed 57 red dragons....57!  Wouldn't you concede that's a little unbalanced?  Think I lost well over 3000 efreeti, too.  

With that many heroes, you can field an army essentially twice as powerful as everyone else at your power rank.  I don't care who you are--- if you're at 20 million power with an army that fights like you're at 35 million, it's very, very hard not to succeed---you would basically have to try to fail, with a pure sprite army or something.  

Again, I'm not trying to be too critical to people with heroes, it IS part of the game, and heroes CAN be used skillfully. I just don't want to see a scenario where everyone has to geld at the start of the reset just to be able to compete on even terms.  

[eru]

No, i don't think it's unbalanced. Why? Just because he didn't won against u... why? Cause u had tools enough to defeat him. Liches are the worst enemy of dragons, so it's normal they die in masses against them. Of course heros will make much more dragons to be killed but as u say, it's part of the game and u have to know how to use heros as much as u must know how to stack for every color.

Ur argument of power of armies is not, usually,  a real situation. In fact u pretend a mage can have an army hitting much more harder thatn it should do due to his heros. So u're supposing the mage beeing attacked or the one who attacks u doesn't use heros. Of course someone can have a a 20 milion power army hitting as a 35 milion one. But if this mage hits a mage that is in the same situation, then the battle isn't unbalanced. Then it's ur decision to play with or without heros.
As uknow there are stacks that need heros to work better, and stacks that can't have heros (red/fake). I'ts only a matter of strategy and ur own decision. I also have to say that in this server everybody can buy a hero by a ridiculous amount of money... EVERYBODY, so everybody can use them with the only problem is that at lvl 14 there isn't A REALLY GOOD HERO!

I agree with u in some aspects and also i think it would be better to learn stacking before buying heros, just to know what u'r looking for, what will u haunt and what kind of mages will be ur targets.

Eru, enjoying to talk a bit deeper than usually about The Lord xD

[Leper]

But Eru, he DID beat me =)  He slaughtered me in fact.   Luckily the one hit sent me into protection, so others were unable to finish what he started.  Then he left himself at 22 million power, allowing me to summon up to 44 million to take my counter which I won...barely.  But even that was a bloodbath, and if I didn't have an extra 5k acres on him before the battle I wouldn't have won.  And poor devastad0r, who didn't have as much land, was destroyed.

Your secondary point is precisely my point, when you say "But if this mage hits a mage that is in the same situation, then the battle isn't unbalanced. Then it's ur decision to play with or without heros."   That's EXACTLY my point, in fact.  The 20-35 analogy is quite proper when one mage has heroes - remember i'm talking about the mage who has every good hero (about half of archmage heroes are good), not the one who has 4 or 5----and the other mage does not.  Thus, the only way to compete on even terms is to go out and get heroes yourself...soon everybody will have heroes and you will not be able to succeed at this game unless you spend a good week or two gelding and buying stuff.

[eru]

I disagree with u. For example, try to play a red/fake and u'll see u don't need at all ehros. And i can assure u red/fakes works really well if u have enough items. Devastad0r was taken down cause he does'nt play every day and he was very very oversummoned (only to be above those blacks that were powering up). Just think about red/fake, of course it's more difficult to play with cause u can't disband but be sure that those blacks will have a problem to beat u. So there's an example where u can decide to play without heros. And like this one there are other stacks, other possibilities. I think it's just that u're thinking on those greens with huge treants, and blacks with those agrresive liches hitting near 9000 their ranged cold attack.
We (the red mages) have a problem, red dragons don't accept heros, they are useless for us, unless u stack something else after them, in wich case u have to lower the number of dragons u can mantain. Then u have more problems with blacks. I repeat, i think it's not a matter of heros, it's a matter with the stack u're using. Usually, other colors take benefits of having heros, not really a red mage because he centers his power on reds and except the veteran, the other valour/tactics/... heros only affect them 1/10 times. But remember why heros don't apply their abilities to reds, it's the most powerfull unit in the game AND we have the best attack (even used in defense xD) spells of game (stun, inferno...).

Of course if u find a good stack (i think i know who u are talking about when u talked about that black mage) made specially against a red mage by someone who knows how to play u'll loose. AND if this mage has heros then... wll, what u were saying, it's a bloodbath xD But, it's what it is supposed to be the game, a bloodbath between some colors ;)