Reprogrammed fatigue and battle power of flying units

[lord_frank]

Fatigue

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Fatigue was reprogrammed as specified by the team GD





Battle power of flying units

---------------------------------



The multiplier for the flying units was wrong, so they were bad placed on some battles. Now everything is Ok.



Greetings.





Traducido por team de traduccion                    

[Iratus]

This is good news thanks Frank                    

[east]

Can you tell me where I can find these new changes? What is the new rules for fatigues? Thanks                    

[Weaver]

If it\'s the same fatigue as normal AM then it\'s a 15% reduction to damage done by Primary attack and Counter each time a units uses it\'s primary attack or counters. 10% if the unit has Endurance.                    

[east]

Who are those people in team GD?





Also,

I might be wrong but I thought a unit become fatigued for being attacked. For example, say I have 1 stack of ghouls (initiative 1), if it got attacked numerous time and lost a certain % of units, it become \"fatigued\" and may not even attack. But then, I am only a newbie and more likely to be wrong  :poin:                    

[Dahak]

Yes, but it would be taking counters that would cause Ghouls from your example not to attack (i think)                    

[east]

A very good point. Thank you.                    

[Anonymous]

I\'ll try to explain, though it is a bit complicated.



All the units have a % of \"accuracy\". Usually this number is 30, but many factors can increase or decrease it, such as unit habilities, attacking on a siege, spells, etc. Accuracy is a multiplier for the unit attack, so more or less a unit with an attack of 1000 will have a \"real\" attack (without factors involved) of 1000 x 0.30 = 300

Fatigue acts directly over the accuracy, each time a unit is hit by an attack (it doesn\'t matter if it can counter or not) the accuracy decreases on a %, so if the unit recieves several attacks before it hits, his attack power will be decreased, and they will kill far less enemy units than they should.

Accuracy can\'t be 0%, so a unit will always hit no matter how many attacks it has recieved, only his \"killing\" would be severely decreased.                    

[east]

It is very clear. Thanks you very much!  :cheer:                    

[Weaver]

each time a unit is hit by an attack...the accuracy decreases on a %....

Accuracy can\'t be 0%, so a unit will always hit no matter how many attacks it has recieved, only his \"killing\" would be severely decreased.

That\'s incorrect. Every single thing the encyclopedia tells you regarding percentages in battle is direct subtraction. (x% - y% = (x-y)% not (x*y%)%)



The formula for number of units killed is



#Dead = (#Attacker * AP * (1-AverageOfResistances) * Accuracy * Effeciency) / DefenderHP



Accuracy is effected by things like Seige Penalty (But this is variable depending on what unit abilities are stacked with it), Marksmanship, Clumsiness etc and it has a minimum value of like 1-3%. All abilities are direct addition/subtraction - so if you have a unit with a magic attack for instance, which has a constant accuracy of 30%, that has the unit ability Marksmanship (+10 Accuracy) the accuracy becomes 40%.

30% + 10% = 40%



If a unit with a magic attack hits a unit with fear the accuracy is

30% - 15% = 15%





Efficiency only applies to the Primary Attack and Counter Attack damage and is effected but stuff like Charm and Fatigue. Effeciency starts at 100 percent but every time a unit without endurance attacks with it\'s primary attack or counters it is reduced by 15% (direct subraction). If it has endurance the direct subtract is 10%. Effeciency can be reduced to zero.                    

[Anonymous]

Well, I knew my explanation was not a exact one. I didn\'t write numbers on fatigue because of that.

But it is curious your formula it is very similar to mine, if you look at it closely. The added \"effeciency\" makes it easy to understand, and helps explaining some things.



But still disagree with you, if effeciency only affects the primary attack, why the secondary attack is reduced when a unit is hit several times? And if it can be reduced to 0, why wraiths are still able to kill something after attacked by a 10 stacks mage with hurricane and ashes?



I don\'t want to open a new debate, even if you are absolutely right, I doubt the team had implemented it that way, cause it starts to give some problems. To the people who want to know how it works, i thinks it is enough now to say: the more a unit is hit, the less it will hit after.                    

[Weaver]

The figures and formula\'s I use are the one\'s I found written on the AM UBB by Mize and Tijn (Both very very awesome mages) and that I\'ve tested.



I\'m assuming you know that the accuracy for Magic and Ranged Magic is 30%.



This battle report (And the method I use to find the efficiency) perhaps isn\'t the best to use but it\'s the best one I have availiable.





RENUNTIO INSULTUS

Invader Tuesday (#1895)

Engaged Units

Name  -  # of Units  Attack  Counter  Hit point  



Treant    4933  8400  3360  8200  

Mandrake    3945  3360  1344  2624  

Salamander    2241  3000  500  1000  

Faerie Dragon    3287  150  0  60  

Nymph    2647  470  0  150  

Dryad    5513  120  0  70  

Medusa    682  1000  300  650  





Defender KiNd_DeViL (#1509)

Engaged Units

Name  -  # of Units  Attack  Counter  Hit point  



Phoenix      100000  20000  77000  

Mandrake      3280  1312  2704  

Gorilla      240  80  330  

Treant      8200  3280  8450  

Djinni      2500  600  7650  





Engage

Tuesday (#1895) casted Flame Blade .

Tuesday (#1895)\'s ally sisay2 (#3452) sent reinforcements of 682 Medusa.

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s ally Dc_2002 (#417) sent reinforcements of 176 Djinni.





Assault Note

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix attacked Tuesday (#1895)\'s Treant.

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix units slew Tuesday (#1895)\'s 165 Treant units.



Tuesday (#1895)\'s Faerie Dragon attacked KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix.

Faerie Dragon\'s attack failed.

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix struck back Tuesday (#1895)\'s Faerie Dragon .

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix units slew Tuesday (#1895)\'s 120 Faerie Dragon units.



Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph attacked KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph units slew KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s 1 Phoenix units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph was too distant, KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix was unable to counter strike.



Tuesday (#1895)\'s Dryad attacked KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix.

Dryad\'s attack failed.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Dryad was too distant, KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix was unable to counter strike.



KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix attacked Tuesday (#1895)\'s Treant.

KiNd_DeViL (#1509)\'s Phoenix units slew Tuesday (#1895)\'s 35 Treant units.









#Dead = (#Attacker * AP * (1-AverageOfResistances) * Accuracy * Effeciency) / DefenderHP

165 = (x * 300 000 * (1 - 0.585) * 0.3) / 8200

1 353 000 = x * 300 000 * (1 - 0.585) * 0.3

4 510 000 = x * 300 000 * (1 - 0.585)

10 738 095.23... = x * 300 000

x = 35 or 36



So, we\'d expect 34 (35 - 1) Pheonix in their primary attack (if there was no fatigue) to kill



#Dead = (34 * 100 000 * (1 - 0.5) * 0.3) / 8200

#Dead = 62



Thus the percentage of the expected result was = 35 / 62

                                              = 56.45%



Alternatively, if there where 36 Pheonix



#Dead = (35 * 100 000 * (1 - 0.5) * 0.3) / 8200

#Dead = 64



Thus the percentage of the expected result was = 35 / 64

                                              = 54.69%







If I was correct and a unit lost 15% of it\'s effeciency each time it countered or used it\'s primary attack (Not Secondary) the efficiency should be



100% - 3 * 15% = 100% - 45% = 55%



The final result is that it\'s slightly off but this is likely due to rounding.



If each time a unit was attacked the effeciency got multied by 0.85 (A 15% reduction) the efficiency would have been ~61%.



Hence Fatigue is direct subtract and can zero an attack. I have seen battle reports where there was one prior hit and the result was a 15% reduction, where there were 2 hits and a 30% reduction, above is a battle report with 3 hits and a 45% reduction. There seems no reason for this trend not to continue and Tijn posted in the forum saying you could stop mono peg dead with Vampire top if four stacks hit the pegs before the pegs hit the vampire, simply through fatigue.                    

[Anonymous]

Ok, as i said, I agree the use of the \"effeciency\" explains it better than my formula.

But you said:



If I was correct and a unit lost 15% of it\'s effeciency each time it countered or used it\'s primary attack (Not Secondary)



The dryads and nymphs didn\'t cause the phoenix to counter, so that\'s not true.

So i stay the same: Fatigue acts every time a unit is hit, even if the attack causes no damage (100% defense).



And i\'ve never seen a report where a unit cause 0 damage due to fatigue, so I doubt effeciency can be put down to 0, but it is a minor fact.



BTW, thanks for the explanation.                    

[Weaver]

The fact that the Units were too far away to be hit make no difference, the Pheonix attempted to counter and were fatigued as a result.                    

[Weaver]

So i stay the same: Fatigue acts every time a unit is hit, even if the attack causes no damage (100% defense).

No, it\'s everytime the unit uses it\'s primary attack or counters if a unit is hit by a secondary attack it doesn\'t attempt to counter and thus isn\'t fatigued. If a unit uses it\'s secondary attack it doesn\'t become fatigued (As seen with the Pheonix above).                    

[DarkLord]

The fact that the Units were too far away to be hit make no difference, the Pheonix attempted to counter and were fatigued as a result.

A agree. Each time a unit attempts to counter it\'s fatigued.                    

[Weaver]

I finally found a battle report where the units attack is zeroed!!!!                    

[Weaver]

RENUNTIO INSULTUS



Invader Tuesday (#1895)

Engaged Units

Name  -  # of Units  Attack  Counter  Hit point  



Phoenix    24  100000  20000  70000  

Treant    2807  8400  3360  8200  

Salamander    1710  3000  500  1000  

Mandrake    1539  3360  1344  2624  

Dryad    10686  120  0  70  

Nymph    2320  470  0  150  

Faerie Dragon    1697  150  0  60  

Soul Speaker    2443  130  0  75  

Druid    1553  220  30  180  

Elven Magician    369  250  0  100  

Leviathan    14  200000  50000  100000  





Defender Zelus (#4475)

Engaged Units

Name  -  # of Units  Attack  Counter  Hit point  



Archangel      4000  400  6000  

Iron Golem      20000  20000  12000  





Engage

Tuesday (#1895) casted Flame Blade .

Zelus (#4475) casted Resurrection .

Tuesday (#1895) used Brooch of Protection .

Tuesday (#1895)\'s ally Spawn69 (#681) sent reinforcements of 14 Leviathan.





Assault Note

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 75 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Faerie Dragon attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Faerie Dragon units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 6 Archangel units.

Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel struck back Tuesday (#1895)\'s Faerie Dragon .

Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel units slew Tuesday (#1895)\'s 207 Faerie Dragon units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Dryad attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Dryad units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 8 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Dryad was too distant, Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel was unable to counter strike.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 7 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Nymph was too distant, Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel was unable to counter strike.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Soul Speaker attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Soul Speaker units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 2 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Soul Speaker was too distant, Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel was unable to counter strike.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Druid attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Druid units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 2 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Druid was too distant, Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel was unable to counter strike.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Elven Magician attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Elven Magician units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 1 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Elven Magician was too distant, Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel was unable to counter strike.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Leviathan attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Iron Golem.

Leviathan\'s attack failed.

Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel attacked Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix.

FIRE burst from Phoenix, damaging and slaying 50 of the Archangel.

FIRE burst from Phoenix, but Phoenix endured flame.

Archangel\'s attack failed.[/u]Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix struck back Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel .

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 3 Archangel units.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Leviathan attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Iron Golem.

Leviathan\'s attack failed.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Leviathan struck Zelus (#4475)\'s Iron Golem again.

Leviathan\'s attack failed.

Zelus (#4475)\'s Iron Golem struck back Tuesday (#1895)\'s Leviathan .

Iron Golem\'s counter strike failed.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix attacked Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel.

Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix units slew Zelus (#4475)\'s 21 Archangel units.

Zelus (#4475)\'s Archangel struck back Tuesday (#1895)\'s Phoenix .

Archangel\'s counter strike failed.





The Archangel are hit 7 times before they attack and they do no damage. At the end of the battle



Zelus (#4475)\'s 175 Archangel are slain during battle.

Zelus (#4475)\'s 58 Archangel are resurrected from death.



And I lost it so he must have had more then 1170 to begin with, 995 AA should be able to kill 1 Pheonix.                    

[Anonymous]

Oh my. That report only demonstrates that 1000 fatigued AA are unable to kill a phoenix.



If we apply your formula you will find that the valor of effeciency can be far over 0 to obtain that.



I think I have a report where I attacked a pure wraith with my blue mage. Used call hurricane and ashes, and after all my round of attacks the wraith hit and kill 20 AA or so, very few, but not 0. I will search for it.                    

[Weaver]

Meh, true. I\'d be intrested to see your battle report if you can dig it up.