plant growth

[lord_frank]

PG is reduced 50%                    

[The_End]

What does this mean? What boost percentage does PG give now? Anyway, as much as I PG trees are way too overpowered, this does kill them. The main thing about PG trees is not that they kill your ground stacks(any good player will know how to stop trees), but that they CAN\'T be killed without a correct spell/item getting through and the right units. Is it possible to cut down the HP boost by 50% but leave the Attack at the full percentage? Is that very hard to code? Cause it will really balance things out alot more.                    

[daMaddcow]

In my opinion, this makes matters worse rather than better.



The problem with treants is that the resistances are off-balance, making them too strong against red when they should  be weak.



Weaken them vs fire and lightning like the old AM, but leave PG alone.





:cheer:                    

[lord_frank]

Weaken them vs fire and lightning like the old AM-->> activated                    

[Revenger]

Hehehehe, It was about time, now greens will not anylonger be the bosses here                    

[The_End]

So what\'s the final verdict? Is PG still cut by half? Did they get a weakness now? Or both? By the way, since when did AM Trees have lightning weakness? It was fire all along. Lightning was 0% resisted that\'s all. No weakness. Not like it matters. Not many things have lightning attack type anyway. And its not like Djinni and Astral Magicians are going to kill anything, weakness or not.                    

[lord_frank]

only fire                      

[Arathorn]

I think you forgot to change PG back to normal, right now it only boosts trees AP to 5000 attack and 2000 counterattack instead of 7500 and 3000                    

[The_End]

That was an intended change to balance out overpowered PG I think.                    

[Weaver]

I really doubt the logic of this. Perhaps trees are over powered now because some key spells/enchantments still don\'t work. But do you have to **** up one of the 2(3?) decent units green has to weaken the colour to the level of the other colours on the server? Wouldn\'t it be better to get everything running before trying to \'balance\' units.



I agree that there was something really wrong with how trees and red in general interacted last reset (Memories of winning vs mono RD with mono tree - provideding CH got through). Red should have a bigger advantage over Trees then that (Well, RD atleast). Fire should beat tree\'s but dropping their AP/HP to 5000??? The lowest value I can ever remeber on real AM was 7500. That\'s a drop to 66%.



Trees have always been huge. They have to be given they are the back bone of most green armies. Take that away and what do you have? Nix? They die like flies here. I\'ve seen battles at the 5 million NP level were 26 Pheonix bit the dust. 1 million power from a 5 million NP mage.... Earth Elementals/Mandrakes? They need cover or they die (On this server at least). An animal unit? No Enlarge/Ring here, they die. This leaves you with what? Creeping Vines and Dryads; sounds like a killer force to me.



Just my thoughts.                    

[qbot]

I agree with weaver. With weakness against fire implemented, trees should not be as almighty as they used to be. A further reduction of PG by 50% simply make trees lame. Don\'t forget this affects treants, mandrakes and vines, the main bulk of most greens\' armies. With intiatiative 1 and a much reduced AP/power ratio, what can trees do now? BBQ themselves?  :nut: . I propose all greens now go mass zombies so I can feed on them with my white mage  :cheer:                    

[Simba]

This masterstroke has effctively disarmed green mages.

There is no other good unit for green to use as Nixies die like flies to almost any enemy and griffons are useless without Enlarge Animal and/or Ring. Earth Elementals are decent medium stacks but not first stack material.

All that green has left now are decent - or even very good -  units for filling up long stackings, but it has no good top stack anymore.

If you have to weaken Trees do it in good meassure.

There are no Shamans here anyway so they don\'t even have their \'personal heroes\'.

Maybe trees are stronger than most ground units, but they have a weakness and they can be beat. Now they are simply fodder for any red, blue or black who happens to come by.                    

[Panther]

yea fix pg. the idea was to even out the server not to handicap greens. the spelll resistance should do that. And now too with the tavern closed we have no hero options to beef up our trees BACK TO NORMAL STRENGTH.  Trees are the backbone of green stacks. I agree that nixes die too easily, and on this server the other units need to be covered to be effective in most instances.



Maybe we should stack pure AA until this is straightened out?

Please fix this mess as soon as possible :cry:  dont u havea heart?  :cry:  lol                    

[Simba]

I propose all greens now go mass zombies so I can feed on them with my white mage  :cheer:

We don\'t have to do that, trees die to whatever units you use now, anyway.                    

[lord_frank]

friday PG activated ..;)                    

[The_End]

All of you here are Verdent players are you not? I agree that cutting the AP of Trees would kill the greens. But the HP of Trees was always too high. WHAT can you use to kill a PG Tree without fire? You might argue its a weakness so it balances things out. But even Salamanders, pure fire, only break even with them because their HP was so high, any counters killed the Salas. Try stacking Salas low to \"stop\" top ground trees. I stopped doing that as a nether. HDs with flame blade deal only around 94%-96% which just about kills the trees because Trees have good resistences as well. Best you could do against Trees was to stop them with fatigue(even so... ENDURANCE!) or slow them down or simply fly away. You won\'t be able to kill them off like you can other stuff. So everyone\'s problems with Trees isn\'t their attack. Its their health. They can\'t be killed easily. No other unit even comes close.



As for Trees being green\'s best unit? Yeah it is. But how about comparing the rest of Verdent units NOT TO TREES but to the other units in the game? Nixes have a good attack/power ratio and flame burst. FDs have the best attack type. EMs are probably the best barrack unit after DEMs(maybe KTs). EEs have an INSANE attack. Stack them below and see fodder die. Nymphs are GREAT low stack fatigue inducers/killers and Dryads are the best fodder in the game(far more uses than Zombs). Verdents are definitely not weak with PG cut by half. They probably just have to relearn the game and learn some stacking. Then you\'ll see the other green units are far from weak.                    

[qbot]

I am a white mage :). But I only talk here kekee. I am not going to play my mage until they fix blinding flash and holy light ;).



Back to your question. I totally agree that Treants have good HP/power ratio. But you can win the battle even without killing off too many treants. All you are required is to reduce your enemy\'s army power by 10%. You can kill his foldders :). When I was playing in AM, my black mage was stacked to win green. And that\'s green with proper PG (i.e affected by sl) and with shaman. If you want, you can also win green with a white mage (I have to admit, I am not sure if SW here has charm or not :) or if the dreadknight has the \"terror\" abilities :) ).



Nevertheless, the point is that one of the green mage main advantage in this game is their tree and PG. Given that ROAC and enlarge animal are both not working, animal units are out of question (I wonder if amazon here has the beast master ability :)). What can greens rely on now?



Red, you have RDs. Black, u have liches. White you have a few good units. Blue, you have high sl and Black and white units. Green? you just have an ass to be whipped :)



Btw, Nixes has high AP/power ratio but they have too low HP/power ratio to compensate their low resistance (90% is NOT good enough :)). They do drop like flies. And FD... they have VERY low HP and AP to power ratio.... they are not one of the best unit. Even their breath attack and 5 initiative lose to RDS (unless you are massively overwhelming your enemies :))



I still think green should be given back their PG :)

[Panther]

The End i think you have your games mixed up. Nymphs suck in this game they die easily and are not nearly as strong. Maybe it is because i cant totally understand spanish. but i think you are wrong about the nixes flame burst ability.  I do not believe it is avaliable in this game yet.  



Thats how it always was with treants, you either slow them down or have bars and fly away.  Trees were always hard to kill and i dont understand what the big problem is. Now that the resistances are back and that pg will soon be back to normal the game should even out                    

[lord_frank]

i am working.....



patience ...



;)                    

[qbot]

Yea I forgot about that. I don\'t think there is fire burst in this game (yet). And I do not believe resistance is currently in place (or.. not properly implemented). My red test mage\'s blaze managed to kill some of my green test mage\'s FDs even though FDs are suppose to be 400% resistance to red spell  :nut: .                    

[lord_frank]

;)                    

[HandsomeWolf]

Because you change the plant growth in a sudden i lost 4k lands in two days!!!

I lost 15k treants to Pure Phoenix and 15k treants to Pure Wraiths

using full bars and call hurricane/ sppider web

you destroy the fun of the game the tactics of players using greens

now everyone running mass phoenix which is gay!

Please bring back the old Plant growth..

my game beeing ruin!

and White needs Love and Peace and Holy Light..<whites power

thats why whites are useless without these spells...

and generate more items..so the game can be more balance

and control the black sabbath                    

[HandsomeWolf]

a 3k land nether with pure wraith attacks a 9k land green with 15k tree and i lost my tree because of that including my lvl 16 berserker..

this is dump!



as what he saids...red has rd but resistance,nether has lich but no battle lust,green has plant growth for trees but no rust armor,blue has no mind bar,while white has no holy light,blinding flash,love n peace..usually white depends on these spells to be tough..no holy light,love n peace, and ressurection not working well for dominions, i can say all whites cant defends on lands..

and now all whites mainly running pure AA  or AA/dom/pegs

all gays

greens mass phoenix

and many blue are running pure djinni..and i see that djinni basicly and rape all units with pure djinni..i\'m not sure is the djiini attack power has change                    

[The_End]

To qbot:

Yes I stack to kill greens as a black too. Its what black feeds on higher up anyway. But why does every green have to have fodder for you to kill? Simply because most greens don\'t stack very well. They don\'t even assign their defense well because to them, everything revolves around the trees. They don\'t bother learning the game past that. The current PG boosts trees 100% now is it? They still have 5000 hp and with very good resistences for the 4 most important attack types, they can still tank. In fact, its not worse than Lich against most stuff. And you get them way easier as well. Sure people could use fire against you but I stacked Liches or HDs top in AM past 8k lands so its really up to the player to learn how to protect their stacks. Trees won\'t be dead just because PG boosts it by a \"mere\" 100%(the 250% boost in AM actually made things like Mandrakes tanks! WTH?). I think if PG gave Trees a 100% hp boost but the full 200-250% ap boost it would be just right. With a white, I think KTs actually fare better against Trees than SWs. SWs need guaranteed fatigue on Trees to make the most out of charm. Terror doesn\'t really work on Trees. Their nether resist is too high. I\'m talking about AM here again. But then, this game is going to be an almost exact replica of that in a few months won\'t it? I sure hope so. But I don\'t really mind all that since stopping Trees never was a main problem anyway but killing them. And white still needs major hero boost to hit green. Never worth it other than taking counters. I don\'t know of any white in the top 30 who goes around specifically feeding on green. I didn\'t mention animal stacking because I don\'t think its feasible even if the game is fully working. And yes. Nixes die to alot of stuff(80% resist throughout other than fire and one more I think), but not every is an AA right?



Panther:

Sorry. I didn\'t know Nixes didn\'t have flame burst. But the point remains that they will get it soon right? I\'d rather have the spells and stuff brought to a certain level and be consistence throughout until everything is fixed rather than little tweaks in between to try to balance things. By the way, Nymphs die like crap. But why are you even stacking them so high up? Are salamanders good attackers? I sure think so. Nymphs have an even better attack(poorer attack type though) with init3 and range. Together with DEMs they actually make up the major fodders I use as a Nether.



And for the whites.... I can feel your pain. White sucks majorly now. But at least you\'ll have the comfort of knowing that once the game is up and running fully you\'ll be the strongest color by far once again.



Sorry for the rants. I\'m just bitter because I know of so many green mages who compare every other green unit in the game to PG Trees rather than the rest of the other colors\' units and say green sucks. I also know people who can only play Verdent and nothing else and constantly ask me why I bother about stacking and spells so much as a Nether. It bugs me to no end. I apologize if the posts made any of the skilled green mages here feel inadequate.                    

[Simba]

I apologize if the posts made any of the skilled green mages here feel inadequate.

LOL!



I will not complain anymore. As I am in the forums now I might read the post warning of changes like these coming early on, before it is done. Then I will be able to prepare in time and change my stacking acordingly.                    

[The_End]

Simba:

Glad to know there are still such verdent players like you around. Maybe if PG was nerfed we\'ll see who the really good green players are huh? :cool:  If only there were more like you.                    

[qbot]

Hmm..



Although KT has a higher melee resistance than SW, SW\'s charm more than compensate it.



Treants only has 80% resistance to blue spell in AM. So terror will affects treants.



If a green does not have folder, how are they going to gain lands? Green can go mono treant but that is not something you wanna use as it can be easily countered.                    

[The_End]

Charm cuts the efficiency of the huge primary of Trees by half yes. But with only that alone the SWs still die worse than KTs. The thing about Charm is that it kinda works like Large Shield so with fatigue you\'ll be able to cut more damage than KTs. That\'s provided the green doesn\'t stack 10 stacks as well or something. Terror is a nether ability. I forgot Trees nether resist but such things never really come into play at the higher ranks. There\'s a reason why Warlords and Shieldmaidens are called \"power heroes\" and why blinding flash or fog/sachel based defenses can only work up to a certain rank. Fodder can also be summoned right before attacking and disbanding on defense in exchange for something more solid. Not hard for a green because of Nature\'s Favor. We\'re talking about AM here right? Then again, if you\'re a good green you\'ll know that you\'ll need to runaway as early on as possible and avoid mid reset battles anyway.                    

[qbot]

I don\'t get it. How does a 10 stacks green influence the charm ability? Any unit that has no resistance to white will be affected by the charm ability. And white is not only facing green enemies. SW has a better resistances on other attacks compared to KT.





And I also don\'t get your point about disbanding folders. We started this conversation with treants being too hard to kill. So I advised that we kill other units than treants. So unless a green is running mono treants as his/her defense stack (which is not advisible), there will be something else (which is not treant) for you to kill regardless if you disband folders and summon whatever better units.





And what has this sentence \"Then again, if you\'re a good green you\'ll know that you\'ll need to runaway as early on as possible and avoid mid reset battles anyway.\" got to do with the previous chat? And I disagree with that too. If you have many friends that going up fast with you and can give you back up, then this is a good tactic because you can then lore. Else, whether you can stay up there long is another question. A few serenities can easily take down a green. (If you are going to follow up and say that a good green will have no tree units when they reach up top, then can you kindly teach us what units will you use? In your previous post, you already claimed that animals units sucks).                    

[The_End]

I read your first paragraph and I can\'t really tell if you\'re talking about AM or this game. Does charm work the same way it does here? Why did you even mention white resistences? And it was fatigue I mentioned that affected the overall effectiveness of the SWs and charm by modifiying end efficiency. Anyway, if you only want to block Trees, either SW or KT. I already explained earlier the circumstances both may work in but if you don\'t understand those stuff then its no point going on.



Point taken. The green will have something tougher to kill but killable anyway. Its a major risk to hit any green simply because you can only hope that your spell or item gets through and your top stack manages to block the Trees. Most other colors can be attacked by either blocking their top stack or at worst, breaking even and winning the battle below.



Green is the second best color in a fully working game simply because it can run. Its that simple. And no. You do not use much else other than Trees and barrack units. Simply because Trees are so damn good. Get high fast, run the hell away. Then again, I always played in Blitz non-guild and solo so this will probably not work in a guild server. Still, the best greens I know all reach the top 10 very VERY early on. And good green should be able to do that. Only problem is there\'s not much room at the top. I mentioned it because the great verdents would be so high up that the cut on PG shouldn\'t even bother them because they\'ll have more than enough land to counter anything anyone throws at them. After thinking about it, it\'s my fault for thinking that way. I failed to see the bigger picture that is not every green will be \"up there\".  :nop: Final note is that verdent is not about units but its ability to climb fast and run. So the PG cut really shouldn\'t hinder the better players at all and will force the newer mages to maybe learn to stack, play around with accuracy and efficiency and learn the game more on the whole. It COULD be a good thing ya know? But all the other purely verdent players here are probably gonna disagree with me to death now. PG will be back to normal as mentioned earlier. I won\'t go on anymore and I\'m not complaining since I\'m already happy that I have a game to play.                    

[daMaddcow]

Look, I lost a few k land too when Lord Frank made the change.  And we all know that green sucks arse after the PG was changed.



But in case you forget ... this is a BETA server.



let me repeat..... BETA SERVER



that means we\'re testing shit to help Lord Frank out while he works on this game.



Quit whining about land that you lost and give Frank information to work with to improve.                    

[qbot]

Hmm.. if you read my earlier post, I stated that I am not sure if charm works in this game. Therefore, I am naturally referring to AM.



And how does fatigue affect the overall performance of charm? If you can make trees fatigued, then it is good news for any units, not just SW, since the treants will not be fighting well, if at all.



You said green only used treants because they are so good. I agree totally. That\'s why I said with PG reduced, I think greens cannot defends on treants anymore. The question is, what else can they depend on now? Nothing much really (given ROAC and enlarge animals are currently not working). So I reckon we should give back full PG back to green.



I only play in S1 and beta so I have no clue how non guild blitz worked. But I still think no matter how high a green reach (unless we are talking about unreasonbly high difference like 100k lands vs 20k lands), I don\'t think green can survive with unPGed treants. I talked from my own experiences. Me and my friends had taken down many top 10 greens before. I might not be tendious or mandigo but I have halled as green more than once before. And I don\'t think I can stay in the top with unPGed treants.



To damaddcow: Indeed this is beta. That\'s why we are telling Frank now that the reduced PG is NOT good.  :nut:                    

[Panther]

yes i agree that no one should be whining about lost land because it is so easy to get land. The key issue is that pg will be fixed so we will be able to get land and hold onto it. As long as pg gets fixed within the next few day before the rest i am totally cool with that.  OHHHH YEAAA!!! :shop:                    

[lord_frank]

PG IS FIXED                    

[Panther]

You are a god lord frank. thank you.  as for all the mages that are fat right now :fuck:  :bangm:  time to bust some skulls.                    

[Arathorn]

OHHHH YEAAA!!! :shop:

Amazing                    

[The_End]

And how does fatigue affect the overall performance of charm? If you can make trees fatigued, then it is good news for any units, not just SW, since the treants will not be fighting well, if at all.  

Fatigue 4-5 times the Endurance Trees. Charm does the rest. Very much the same way how you use KTs and make Devils attacks fail. The concept is around the same. And I still don\'t see why 5k HP + resistences is not enough to defend since its still tougher than 99% of the units in the game. But its a moot point anyway. PG is fixed now and I\'m just happy I have a game to play.                    

[HandsomeWolf]

Well,i\'m sure Lord_Frank will be accepting our complains.Since this is the beta server,if there is problem with the game,we must complain to fix it .We are not here complain about skills or ability but the bug or unbalance stuff has to be fix.

Am i right lord_frank ?

~_*                    

[lord_frank]

im am working in units, next week new battle system.



                   

[qbot]

Just a question to the admin. Is it done on purpose that PG only increase the primary attack (2500 to 7500) but leaving the secondary attack unchanged (2500 to 2500)? :confu:                    

[The_End]

PG never boosted secondary.                    

[lord_frank]

exactly ..                    

[qbot]

It never? I thought it did earlier (in this game). Oh well ;~)                    

[indur]

quick question.... I have a green mage with Spell Levell much higher then the regular green (i.e. 500+). :nut:



The higher the SL, higher should be the PG modifier right? However my mage has the same 5000 power attack. Do I neeed to cast PG agian in order to get the updated PG version?                    

[Simba]

Hi Indur



Usually you have to recast spells to get the benefits of a higher SL, but it look like here those differences do not affect spell. I have a much higher SL, too, but I do not get more PG power out of it. Looks like it has not yet been implemented.